unknown

asked Apr 15, 2005 at 1:37pm
Unknown Printer

Jam on LJ2200dtn when using duplex

Hi,

I have a problem with a LJ2200dtn which will jam only when printing 3 or more pages in duplex mode (actually, it seldom gets to more than 3). I have just cleaned the whole printer, particularly sensors and rubbers.
No problem regardless of tray used when printing single side. No problem when printing one or two pages in duplex mode.
When the jam occurs, two sheets are overlapping one another, about halfway under the drum, as is they were multi-fed. Another is exiting the fusing unit (just cleared sensor, but doesn't seem involved in the jam). It looks as though either a new sheet, or the one from the duplexing unit, is taken to the drum at the wrong time. The jam always occurs at exactly the same place.

Any ideas or leads are welcomed. Thanks.

Michel
Thanks much for the info on the sticky solenoid. I had difficulties determining which screws to remove to gain access to the relays. So, I threw together a web page with the instructions.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/hp2200/hp2200.html
(Incidentally, this is deja vu from the same sticky felt pad problem found in HP LJII and LJIII solenoids. sigh.)
by JeffLiebermann on Dec 24, 2009 at 6:05pm Add comment
The problem is caused by the duplex solenoid. It is not necessary to replace it as everyone knows solenoids never go bad. The sponge that they use to dampen noise deteriorates, leaving a sticky mess that when the heat of coil reaches it, causes the plate to get stuck and allows the mechanism to rotate when it's not supposed to. Solution is to scrape off the sticky stuff and replace it with some sticky backed felt. http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/specials/misc/tools/S97 To do so, you have to remove the right side, back and top in that order. Then you have to remove the formatter board at the left and then the entire gear assembly. Don't worry as the gears don't fall off when you do so. You'll see 3 solenoids. The one at the front/top is the MF solenoid, the one at the bottom/center is the pickup solenoid, and the one at the back is the duplex solenoid. They're all held in by one screw. As long as it's open, do all of them.
by moe on May 27, 2005 at 9:26am Add comment
Thanks Moe!
That was exactly the root cause of the jamming. I wouldn't find these sticky solenoids without your info. I'm glad it worked flawlessly again. Thanks again!
Regards, Bas - basvdberg
I just wanted to add something to moe's fine advise. I followed the instructions and removed the old sponge from the duplex solenoid. I didn't have any adhesive felt so I left it clean. When I tested the printer it didn't work. Took it apart again and noticed that the solenoid was in the closed position. This seemed to be caused by residual magnetism. I put two layers of electrical tape (.007 thick) in place of the sponge and this gave me an air gap. Now the printer works fine. So when you clean your solenoid make sure it has an air gap between the pole piece and the armature. - unknown
Moe,

Just remember how much money you make off of people who are unable to help themvelves!!!

Stephen

by Stephen on May 27, 2005 at 6:10pm Add comment
Does it work OK with a single duplexed page but fail with a 2 page duplex print?

If so, check the L-shaped arm on the duplex solenoid is sat correctly.
Also check that the arm is not sticking. A damping pad is used to reduce the noise of arm hitting the solenoid. These wear and can become sticky from the double sided tape they are attached with.

The duplex solenoid is used to hold the first page (first side printed) in the duplexer, while the first side of the second page is printed.
The solenoid is not used (or has no effect if not working correctly) during a single duplex page.
by mcprinter on Dec 17, 2008 at 1:23am Add comment
'yes' to your question mc... one page duplexed ok...only jams on multiple duplexed pages. I ordered the solenoid, just havent seen a definite yes or no answer to that part will fix it once a new one is installed. Michael N described problem exactly at beginnning of thread. I will post an answer when and if it fixes it.
by jeffertz on Dec 17, 2008 at 11:42am Add comment
In the almost 20 years that I've been fixing printers, I have yet to see one solenoid fail. The only thing I ever do is replace the pad that dampens the metal on metal contact noise. The pad I use never wears out, so it is a permanent repair. http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/specials/misc/tools/S97 Therefore, it is a total waste of money to replace the solenoid.
by moe on Dec 17, 2008 at 5:38pm Add comment
Moe - What pad do you use and where can I buy one? Also, the manual for the HP2200D are no longer posted on this website. Do you know where I could download one?

Thank you all for your time. - unknown
I use a sticky backed felt pad. http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/specials/misc/tools/S97 Cut it to size. As for the manuals, they were taken down because of abuse. We were getting charged too much for the excess bandwidth. Since then, we're self-hosting and we've put them back up.
by moe on May 6, 2009 at 9:54am Add comment
Hey I found the manual!
(multipart rar)

http://www.eserviceinfo.com

is the manual
by Anonymous on Sep 30, 2009 at 11:35pm Add comment
You went to a lot of trouble when you could have downloaded it in one piece here http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/reference/manuals/public/hp
by moe on Oct 1, 2009 at 8:30am Add comment
robroy3: right on the spot :)
I had exactly the same problem (duplexer not working after cleaning the gunk out of the solenoid). When I opened the printer again the solenoid was in the closed position, even though I had operated it before without it sticking.
In my case I used foam-like double sided tape (white). I placed it in place and then cut it in half with an xacto knife. Tolerances in this area are extremely tight, and leaving the double sided tape intact didn't allow the solenoid to retract completely. I just hope this thing won't degrade and become sticky again.

In any case, you just saved me a lot of troubleshooting. THANKS!
by unknown on Dec 22, 2009 at 9:13pm Add comment
Just finished with the cleaning of the sticky felt pad. Duplex printing works like a charm now. Great instructions and pictures by Jeff. Thank you all for the information.
by bhill66 on Feb 17, 2010 at 10:21am Add comment
Thanks. However, I had to tear this HP2200 apart again after the same paper jam problem appeared after about 6 weeks of perfect operation. Same problem, but this time, the residual magnetism in the solenoid was the problem. The solenoid in the middle right was still sticky. 6 weeks of mashing the electrical tape had flattened it sufficiently to reduce the air gap between the armature and the solenoid core.

To fix, I chose NOT to shorten the return spring, as this kludge has caused me difficulties in the past. I tried to demagnetize the solenoid with a Radio Shack bulk tape eraser, but that didn't work. If you're going to try the same thing, be sure to unplug the coil leads first. The induced voltage from the bulk eraser will probably blow up the solenoid driver. You'll have to remove the board to the right of the solenoid in order to get to the coil connector. After multiple passes with the bulk eraser, it was still magnetized and sticky.

I eventually decided that a 3rd layer of tape was probably sufficient until I find a sufficiently powerful demagnetizer. My guess(tm) is that the real problem is mostly the residual magnetism in the solenoid, and not so much the sticky disintegrating foam goo. If anyone has a workable demagnetizer system, I would be interested.

by Anonymous on Feb 17, 2010 at 10:40am Add comment
I don't think residual magnetism is the cause. I've fixed hundreds, if not thousands of the sticking solenoids. This is what we use http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/specials/misc/tools/S97
by moe on Feb 17, 2010 at 10:59am Add comment
Thanks, but I beg to differ, slightly. What I think is happening is that the solenoids are either magnetized from the factory or are becoming magnetized from the applied current in the printer. Either way, they are at the bitter edge of sticking, were it not for the additional springiness provided by the foam tape. The foam is like adding a little additional spring tension. Running the solenoids with nothing does not work, because of the magnetic stiction. Officially, the tape is to reduce solenoid closure noise during operation, but apparently, it also serves as a spring.

My mistake was using layers of electrical tape which does not provide this additional springiness. The electrical tape also appears to flatten slightly. When the stock HP foam tape deteriorates, so does the added springiness (plus the added stickiness of the goo. I'll try some foam tape and see if works any better.

I have a few spare solenoids and will try (time permitting) demagnetizing them with an auto electric growler. If that doesn't demagnetize it, nothing will.

Incidentally, I've fixed about 100 assorted older LJII, LJIII, and LJ4 printers using electrical tape without difficulties. It's on the HP2200dtn that seems to be giving me problems. Since it's my office printer and I have several, experiments are easy.

Thanks again.
by JeffLiebermann on Feb 17, 2010 at 12:13pm Add comment
Just to prove my point, take out the solenoid. Remove the plate and spring. Now take anything, screwdriver tip or anything that will stick to a magnet. Stick it on the metal end of the solenoid. Watch how it doesn't stick at all. I know 'cause I just tried. The spring has more than enough strength to pull the plate up unless it is stuck to the deteriorated foam which becomes even stickier after the coil heats up from repeated usage. The only reason that foam was there originally was to serve as a noise dampener, not to assist in the springing back of the plate. That's what the spring is for.
by moe on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:19pm Add comment
Ok. See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/hp2200-solenoid.wmv (250KB)
Sorry about the out of focus movie and jitter. I'll shoot it again later tonite.

You're correct that a demagnetized #2 screwdriver will not stick to the solenoid. A much smaller jewelers screwdriver will stick if I bridge the gap between the frame and the core. The above video shows that the armature will magnetically stick. However, to support its own weight, I had to use two tricks. One was to remove the electrical tape I was using as a noise reducer and gap expander. The other is that the armature is shown upside-down. Look carefully at the last frame to see what I did with the armature. The reason it had to be inverted was that there is a dimple projecting from the armature that hits the solenoid core, creating a small gap. It's not much, but it's enough to prevent the armature from sticking reliably. Note that this is all after I demagnetized this solenoid as best I could with a tape bulk eraser. The original was worse.

I'm going to try and borrow a piezo force gauge and make some measurements tonite. I'll post results. I'm also starting to guess that a stronger return spring plus foam (instead of electrical tape) may be the best fix.

by JeffLiebermann on Feb 17, 2010 at 3:38pm Add comment
just want to add one more thing to do. there's a one-way bearing combo gear that drives the little duplex roller could become gunky and not grabbing the shaft properly. while you're at it, lubricate the one way bearing as well.
by seriously on Feb 17, 2010 at 4:26pm Add comment
Movie is now in focus.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/hp2200-solenoid.wmv (600KB)
I also inverted the armature to the normal position and found that it still sticks.
by JeffLiebermann on Feb 17, 2010 at 4:31pm Add comment
One more video, this time using a compass:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/hp2200-compass.wmv
I compared the deflection with a small permanent magnet and guessed that it's about 1/10th as strong. This solenoid isn't magnetized much, but it's still enough to cause problems.

Incidentally, I noticed that the return springs on the other two solenoids in the HP2200 are somewhat stronger than the duplexer solenoid in question. I'm wondering if using a stronger spring might help overcome the magnetic stiction.

I should mention that the HP2200DTN is my favorite printer of the moment. It duz most everything I want (except color). 1200 dpi, fairly fast, duplex printing, 2 paper trays, networking, a bit noisy while operating, totally silent in standby, cheap toner, easy to work on, inexpensive, and other than HP's apparently chronic sticky solenoids, totally reliable. I have one on the office, one at home, and two more for loaners (which usually end up getting purchased by my customers).

by JeffLiebermann on Feb 17, 2010 at 4:59pm Add comment
Thanks a lot JeffLiebermann for your detailed instructions http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/hp2200/hp2200.html

I've fixed my printer (HP Laserjet 2200d) duplex print jam problem successfully.
by unknown on Mar 15, 2010 at 1:14am Add comment
JeffLiebermann, Thank you for your instructions, have electrical tape on 2 of my 4 2200s and it works like a champ. Moe, I'll be buying some of your felt, I have 4 of these printers to fix. Thanks all!
by Alden on Apr 20, 2010 at 10:07am Add comment
I'm having the same problem, my 2200dtn keeps jamming on the 4th page of duplexing. I tried taking it apart but I don't even know where the solenoid is. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks ;)
by unknown on Oct 4, 2010 at 1:28pm Add comment
If your duplexing is jamming when printing more than 2 pages then use the solenoid fix:

1. Download the HP 2200 service manual:
http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/reference/manuals/public/hp

2. Expose the duplexing solenoid by removing the formatter (there are parts that need to be removed first, including rear cover, front cover, control panel, top cover assembly).

3. remove the screw holding the duplexer solenoid. The solenoid will remain attached to the printer by a wire.

4. opening and closing the solenoid you will probably notice that it sticks. This comes from residues of silencer fabric which has deteriorated. Unhinge the retaining spring and clean the sticky parts of the solenoid, both sides. either leave it clean or attach something to dampen the solenoid 'click'...I used a small piece of electrical tape, but it wasn't necessary.
5. reassemble in reverse order.

You need a Phillips 2 screwdriver and a flat screwdriver. Working carefully it should take an hour. Keep the screws from each part of the disassembly organized to make reassembly easier.

Good luck.
by nimnar on Nov 24, 2010 at 9:59am Add comment
dupe
by nimnar on Nov 24, 2010 at 10:07am Add comment
What is the problem if the first page prints one side and then gets hung up after being rolled back into the printer?
by Rourko on Mar 23, 2012 at 9:13pm Add comment
@Rourko - Same problem, the duplex (double-sided printing) problem.

Here is another thread about this same issue;

http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/forums/laser/15241 - dazebreak
If it sticks on the 2nd side of the first page, it's probably the sticky solenoid problem as I described in
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/hp2200/hp2200.html
There are 3 solenoids in the HP2200d. The duplexer solenoid is the most likely culprit, but the other two can also cause problems due to the same sticky solenoids. Might as well fix them all. Incidentally, don't get the armature springs mixed up. They're slightly different between the three solenoids.
by JeffLiebermann on Jan 29, 2013 at 7:22pm Add comment
I have a twist on the duplex/solenoid issue above.

I have a 2200dtn that can print simplex perfectly and duplex as long as only one sheet is fed. As soon as I attempt to print multiple sheets it jams. When I pull the ink cartridge I find two sheets in the platten.

I disassembled the printer and checked the solenoids. All three are in great shape with no sign of residue on the felt pads. So, now I am stumped.

Any thoughts? Are there any tests to perform to root cause solenoid issues electronically?

Thanks in Advance!
by LaramieKid on Apr 8, 2013 at 8:58pm Add comment
You do realize that the symptoms you describe exactly describe a sticking solenoid. I had a 2200dtn last week with only 10,000 copies and the only solenoid that looked good was the Manual Feed one because it had never been used. As long as I had it apart, I would have gone ahead and replaced that awful sponge crap HP uses with some never fail felt. I have had a couple of printers where I thought the pad looked good, but like I said if I took it apart, I replace it anyway. It did fix the issue both times.
by moe on Apr 8, 2013 at 10:31pm Add comment
Thank you all!

After a first try by removing the sponge i din't succeed because the solenoid was held by residual magnetism.

After then, i replaced the spring by a very little stronger spring and a small piece of tape.

So it works again.
by unknown on Jun 29, 2013 at 2:40am Add comment
Fixed mine with 4 layers of tape on each of the solenoids. \\o/

Many thanks for this information. (I can now print my dissertation!)
by dkscully on Sep 7, 2013 at 7:55am Add comment
If an optional 500 sheet paper feeder is used this can be the culprit as well. There is a 4th solenoid in the optional paper feeder. If the jam does not occur when the 500 sheet module is removed this 4 th solenoid sticks and you do not have to take the printer apart.
Greeting Hughy
by Hughy on Dec 14, 2013 at 4:14am Add comment
Help! I followed the instructions for fixing the sticky solenoid problem on all three solenoids (had the duplex jam on more than one sheet problem). Now the printer jams in duplex on first page after it draws the sheet back into the printer. The first sheet comes out into the printed page tray, is drawn back and the printer jams with the paper inside the back access. Before I take the whole thing apart again I was hoping one of the experts might point me in the direction of what I may have done wrong in re-assembling. When I first put it all back together I was able to print two sheets in duplex without issue. When I tried again this new problem popped up. I have verified there are no pieces of paper anywhere I can see. I realize I will most likely have to completely disassemble again but since I was pretty careful putting it back together the first time I wanted to see if there was any known issue I should pay extra attention to when reassembling.
by russwhip on Feb 24, 2014 at 8:09pm Add comment
It sounds like the solenoid fix was successful, but you have a different problem. The tray 2 separation pad and drive roller are the likely culprit.
http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/kits/hp/16
Easy way to determine if that's the problem is to start it printing a page and then turn off the printer power just as the page is leaving Tray 2 and moving up into the printing mechanism. If there is more than one page coming out of the tray, you need new rubber parts. - JeffLiebermann
Don't think it's a separation pad or pickup roller issue. The paper is getting picked up, so the roller is functioning. Only 1 page at a time is going in so it's not a separation pad issue. Having no clue how you did the repair or what you used on the solenoids if anything, it is almost impossible to offer any advice. Even if I were in front of it and watching what was happening, it would still be difficult to come up with a solution because user input problems behave differently from a normal printer failure.
by moe on Feb 25, 2014 at 9:56am Add comment
Ok, thanks for the comment. I did the solenoid repair exactly as you suggested and used the same sticky felt you suggested. I will disassemble again and reassemble...any advice as to what specifically to focus on to avoid the problem?

Just found a new issue...the single sheet paper feeder will not work. If I try to print onto paper from the feeder the printer goes into error with orange light. It will print one-sided from the paper tray though. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. - russwhip
I've had a worn separation pad allow more than one page to be fed at a time. Try my trick of killing the power while printing to see if that's happening.

I also can't tell what's happening from your description. Maybe a list of my past mistakes will help. I managed to mix up the springs between the 3 solenoids. They're different. I had to take apart another printer to identify the color coded springs. Another mistake is not screwing down the solenoid to the frame properly. There's only one screw holding the solenoid in place. Install the screw quite loose and rotate the solenoid around the screw until it is positioned by a detent. You'll feel it drop in. Then, finish tightening the screw. I've also forgotten to reconnect some of the cables and connectors, but that should produce an error message.

I've also received email from one individual that thought the felt was too thick and used tape instead. There might be different thicknesses being sold under the same ACE brand. The felt I used is about 2 mm thick. However, I've seen some 1 mm felt, which should work equally well. However, I also have some 4 mm thick felt, which is much too thick and should not be used.

When you have it apart again, take photos of the key areas before putting it back together. If you still have problems, post them to some public photo web pile so that we can take a look.

The single sheet feed is known as the multi purpose tray. Paper feed is controlled by the furthest forward solenoid. I suspect that the solenoid your repaired might be mispositioned. Might as well check all 3 solenoids.
by JeffLiebermann on Feb 25, 2014 at 11:29am Add comment
I have resolved my issue. I disassembled my unit and reduced the size of the felt pad on each solenoid. Then carefully reassembled. Both the duplexer and multi-purpose tray issues are now resolved. Thanks to the contributors to this thread.
by russwhip on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:50pm Add comment
Thumbs up! I have just repaired my printer by replacing the felt pads on the solenoids. Works perfectly!
by tesarik on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:04am Add comment