Richard

asked Oct 18, 2004 at 12:22pm
Hp HP DesignJet 4000

HP 4000 prefuser jam.

I had a piece of paper rap around the fuser roller. I removed the paper, but now the printer won't print. Most of the time it jams right at the transer roller and tells me I have a jam at the back of the printer. A few times it stops right before entering the fuser with the same jam. Everything seems to be working, just not working right.
When you had the fuser out did you turn the gears manually to see if the were moving smoothly? What is the exact error code you're getting?
by unknown on Oct 18, 2004 at 12:36pm Add comment
Remove the fuser and check the sensor flag and sensor on the side. From memory I seem to recall the sensor itself snaps into the frame and the flag is on a long shaft going towards the center of the fuser. Sometimes the sensor itself will slip out of the holder or the clips themselves will break off and the sensor will not stay still. There is another known issue not related to the fuser and you can check it out by feeding from the manual tray. If it feeds ok from the manual tray, the problem is the sensor behind the manual tray and will require removal of the manual tray and possibly the separation of the printer to get to the main board on the bottom.
by dmzcompute on Oct 18, 2004 at 12:36pm Add comment
I don't have the printer in front of me right now (unfortunately), so I am going by memory. I think the error is 13.5, but I will check when I get home. In regards to the tray, it does it from either tray.
by Richard on Oct 18, 2004 at 1:19pm Add comment
well the 13.5 error is def. pointing to the fuser. Like DMZ said, you may want to check those sensor flags. If you have another 4000 or 4050 compare the two and you will see what we are talking about if that sensor is broke or unseated.
by unknown on Oct 18, 2004 at 1:29pm Add comment
The sensor in the fuser sits very loosely and is only held in place when you screw down the metal plate with springs that pushes the heating element into the pressure roller. It would be very easy for it to slip loose during the last step in reassembling the fuser

Did you remove the paper by removing the fuser and taking it apart.. or did you pull the paper out? when you say its reporting a jam.. is it actually jamming.. or just stopping the print cycle?
by Craig on Oct 18, 2004 at 3:10pm Add comment
The optical sensor itself is what always pops off on those. I've seen quite a few. Just snap it back in and it will latch into place and you're good to go.
by moe on Oct 18, 2004 at 3:14pm Add comment
I checked the error and it's 13.5. It also ran a sheet of paper through twice then jammed at the transfer roller. Interestingly the pages that made it through hesitated like they were going to stop and they came out blank or perhaps a light dusting of toner. Unfused?
by unknown on Oct 18, 2004 at 6:18pm Add comment
In response to prior questions:
The gears turn fine.
I did not disable the fuser to remove the initial jam.
It is not an actual jam, the paper appears to just stop moving.
I did see that sensor on the shaft that was mentioned, the last time I was in the fuser. I will have to check to see if it moved during reassembly.
by Richard on Oct 18, 2004 at 6:23pm Add comment
Check to make sure the transfer roller is properly seated in its slot... and once again did it JAM at the transfer roller or just stop... if the roller wasnt seated properly it could cause a jam.
Does the "light dusting of toner" smudge if you wipe your hand accross the page?
is the faded print a rececent thing.. you didnt mention it origionally... that could coinside with the transfer roller not being seated (grounded) properly..
by Craig on Oct 18, 2004 at 6:59pm Add comment
I checked the transfer roller the other day. From what I could tell it was in the proper position. I will check it again. The paper is stopped at the beginning edge of the transfer roller. Not wrinkled, just stopped. As far as the toner dusting, I didn't mention it before because I hadn't been able to get a piece of paper through the printer since the initial fuser wrap. Up to the point of the initial jam, this printer has worked like a champ. The toner does appear to be fused on the page (Fuser is fusing!), but it is not any sort of recognizable information.
by Richard on Oct 18, 2004 at 7:24pm Add comment
Richard why not do an engine test. The button is on the left side in a little hole by the fan. The engine test bypasses the sensors so if the engine test prints ok, your problem is a sensor and from your original post I would lean towards the sensor and flag on the fuser itself. Just do not use the manual feeder as the engine test will not work from that tray.
by dmzcompute on Oct 18, 2004 at 7:37pm Add comment
It sounds to me that your fuser film sleeve is no good. You said that you had a peice of paper wrap around one of the rollers and if at any time that sleeve got wrinkled or creased it will not function properly anymore. The film sleeve is a thin plastic type film that goes around the heating element and it is lubricated with grease which makes it able to roll. If the sleeve is damaged or the pressue roller is damaged they will not turn (especialy the film sleeve) causing the jam at the begining of the fuser. If I were you I would replace the film sleeve and pressure roller. You can find these parts at www.partsmart-corp.com and I think he may be running a special on the 4000 roller kits for $34. Hope this helped
by unknown on Oct 18, 2004 at 7:45pm Add comment
I tried the printer engine test. Same 13.5 jam. I also have to apologize, the paper IS wrinkled. When it jams the paper just obscures the transfer roller, and the some of the paper is bunched up under the baffle prior to the transfer roller. If I thought it was the transfer roller I'd replace it, but since the original jam occurred in the fuser, I'm inclined to focus in that area.
Something just occurred to me, if alien toner got in the machine would that cause something like this to happen? I come from the copier repair world and some paper with unfused color copier toner may have been the paper wrapped around the fuser. I was thinking it was because it was too thick, but maybe the toner wasn't fused or fuses at a different temperature.
by Richard on Oct 18, 2004 at 8:34pm Add comment
Richard are you sure the arm which goes to the toner door has not come loose from the toner cam. When you lift up the toner door the cam moves to the right and you can remove the toner. When the door is lowered the cam fits into the toner and drives the drum. If the cam does not engage the drum does not move and the paper stops. This is what it sounds like to me. Since you are only running one sheet the 13.5 error is because the paper did not reach the fuser not because of a fuser jam. Open the toner door and remove the toner. Lower the door slowly and watch on the right for the white cam to start to move towards the left. If it does not move that is your problem.
by dmzcompute on Oct 18, 2004 at 8:50pm Add comment
Nice, now thats brainstorming!
by Craig on Oct 18, 2004 at 8:57pm Add comment
DMZCOMPUTE gets the cookie.
Summarize:
User (me) reused paper that he probably shouldn't have. This paper stuck to the fuser. User knew enough (or didn't know enough) to take the printer apart to the fuser. User dismantled the printer, unknowing disconnecting the toner cam arm. He then removed the paper and spent the next week assuming that he had destroyed the fuser with the alien toner. Along the way he removed the fuser (at least) 10 times, removed the fuser on another different model laser to look at, removed the transfer arm (at least) 4 times, had a couple of fuser 50.2 errors, and cringed at the price of a fuser. In my defense, I had considered that the toner wasn't turning, but I observed it that cam turning and I assumed it was a electronic process that engaged it. I even went so far as to mark the gears on the toner cartridge with a marker to see if they were turning, but I was thinking the cartridge might be seized (alien toner again). Thank you all for your help. Us poor students need all the help we can get.
by Richard on Oct 18, 2004 at 9:32pm Add comment
Good job dmz. Sometimes one has to go beyond what the user tells you they did and say "maybe they took the printer apart and didn't think that important enough to mention". I'd give you a cookie too, but our staff ate them all.
by moe on Oct 19, 2004 at 10:41am Add comment
that is exactly my problem, i am missing the arm itself that connects to the cam, does anyone have a part number for that?
by jpking on Nov 17, 2005 at 8:47am Add comment
The arm itself can't disappear. It can fall off and go down into the printer. Usually you can use a pair of needle nosed pliers and fish it out without taking the top off.
by moe on Nov 17, 2005 at 8:51am Add comment
You might be able to get it out with the top cover, but putting the end back on the cam will not be that easy. Recommend removing the top cover for better access to find and put back in place.
by dmzcompute on Nov 17, 2005 at 11:34am Add comment